Agreement on water apportioning with China is 60% approved – Minister of Water Resources and Irrigation
Kazakhstan has recently set up a separate Ministry of Water Resources and Irrigation that is now headed by Nurzhan Nurzhigitov. Minister Nurzhigitov sat down with Kazinform News Agency correspondent Yessimzhan Naqtybai for an exclusive interview summing up the results of 100 days of work of the newly-established ministry.
This year part of waters along the Ertis (Irtysh) River in the Bukhtarma Reservoir receded. Have you discussed the problem with the Chinese side?
Last year saw relatively small volume of water accumulating in the Bukhtarma Reservoir. This, first and foremost, had to do with the volume of water coming from the Ertis River and drought-ridden cyclone. Currently, the volume of water in the Bukhtarma Reservoir is 3,000 cu.m. more than last year. There is no cause for alarm this year.
As to the work we are doing with China, the two countries created a working group in 2015. It has several special subgroups. The Kazakh side is represented by 20 people. Previously, the group was headed by the chief of a department of the Ministry of Ecology and Natural Resources. We’ve made a decision that this issue should be dealt with at the level of the deputy minister. Presently, the group is led by my deputy, Nurlan Aldamzharov.
At this point, the issue of water apportioning with China is 60% agreed. That means that 60% of work is done. Both sides are keen to turn the agreement [on water apportioning] into the official document.
In the past 6-7 years, the official text of the agreements on joint utilization of waters of the Ertis River by Kazakhstan and China has not been published. Moreover, the talks regarding the issue are held behind closed doors. Though many continue to insist on open talks regarding the agreement. Do you support this proposal? If not, can you give us a reason?
I would like to give a couple of examples to show what work is being done with China. We’ve jointly built a 100% automated hydrotechnical facility on the Khorgos River with China. The facility ensures that both sides get equal volumes of water. The analogous facility has been erected on the Sumbe River. To this end 119 million tenge was allotted. There is the Ulken-Lasty River in East Kazakhstan region that crosses the border. We’ve got an agreement in place to use the same facility there. So far, we haven’t reached an agreement like this with any other country we share waters with.
As for the openness of the negotiation process, it is necessary to take into account that the issues of water apportioning, collection and use are of strategic importance. Some of the provisions [of the agreement] cannot be made public. But other details of the agreement, we share those through official sources. For instance, the ministry’s press service outlined the key provisions of the agreement in November by publishing it on the official website. That is why I wouldn’t say that the process is fully closed. The talks with the Chinese side encompass over 20 rivers, including Ertys, Ile. We also share four large trans-boundary rivers that are under our control.
We’ve got the agreement with Russia on joint use and solution of problems of waters of the Ural River. Are the results of the research conducted ready? To what extent will the balance of water use of the hydrotechnical facilities in the territory of Russia be approved taking into account Kazakhstan’s interests?
The roadmap was approved in 2019. Inspection of the hydrotechnical facilities in the territory of the Ural River basin is carried out in accordance with the schedule set in the roadmap. Following results of the inspection we will find the answers to all the questions you’ve asked. Russia will provide information about the facilities on its side of the Ural River and we, in turn, will also provide our details.
How many hydrotechnical facilities have been built since the collapse of the Soviet Union on the bank of the Ural River? How many are in the territory of Kazakhstan and Russia, respectively? Does Russia need Kazakhstan’s official approval before construction of a hydrotechnical facility on the bank of the Ural River?
Apart from the Ural River, [Kazakhstan and Russia share] the Kigach River. The first agreement on the joint use was approved back in 1960. In 1982 the agreement was revised. The next agreement on its joint use was concluded in 2010. The Article 6 of the said agreement clearly states that if one of the sides to the agreement constructs a hydrotechnical facility, it is obliged to inform the other side. Even after completion of the facility’s construction, we carry out tests determining how it affects both sides.
Are there any results of the recent tests? Have the facilities that have negative impact on the Ural basin environment been found?
It is too early to speak about it. The Russian side provides its data and we provide ours.
Do you trust the information provided by each other?
We discuss the information provided by Russia together with diplomats as well as experts in water sphere who are familiar with the problem of the Ural River. The experts carry out their own assessment and make it public.
How long will drought be observed in the Ural area? Is there any specific research on that topic?
This year saw less cubic kilometers of water in the Ural River than in previous years. In the driest years that volume of water stood at 3.4 cubic kilometers, like in 2020. The drought was observed in 2020-2021. The level of water decreased. However, the situation is gradually improving.
There is a Syrdarya basin economic association that regulates the Syrdarya River water resources management by four countries. According to expert Nariman Kypshakbayev, since 1988 only the nationals of Uzbekistan were given appointments at this economic association. They say Kazakhstan’s interests are not taken into consideration in water division and monitoring. Do you intend as the Minister to put an end to this tendency?
This issue has been raised since the 1980s. Initially, the representatives of the countries that jointly use the water resources of the Syrdarya River had to head the economic association. Kazakhstan will assume chairmanship over the International Fund for Saving the Aral Sea (IFAS) in 2024. There are also financial matters. We should tackle the Syrdarya basin economic association’s financial backing issues.
Is it a lump sum?
We will explore this issue.
In Nariman Kypshakbayev's words, the 1982 agreement reads that the water resources of the Syrdaria River basin has an area of 37 cubic kilometers. The share of Kazakhstan should stand at 17.4 cubic km. It means 38% out of 37 cubic km belong to Uzbekistan, 52% to Kazakhstan, and the rest 10% to Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan. After the fall of the Soviet Union, the ministers of the four countries agreed this agreement shall continue in force. Nevertheless, as of today, Kazakhstan receives 12 cubic km of water a year. Where is the rest 5.4 cubic km?
It is necessary to understand that the water level varies year by year. When it is high Kazakhstan receives 12 cubic km. This year Kazakhstan received 12.4 cubic km of water. When the water level is low the country’s share should not be less than 8 cubic km. The country received 17 cubic km when the river water balance made 37 cubic km a year. There is no such water level in Syrdarya now.
How do you control even distribution of the country’s share? Some experts doubt that water is distributed in the right quantities. Some of them suggest establishing space monitoring. What's your point of view?
We control water distribution through gauging stations. For example, the country’s gauging station helps monitor the flow of water coming in and out of Shardara reservoir and Koksaray. There are four gauging stations in Kyzylorda region. Uzbekistan uses the same method. Four countries established an international water management commission. It convened twice a year, debated current issues, made reports, and compared the data. The discrepancy in water distribution does not exceed 4%.
The last sitting was held in Tashkent. Now it will meet four times a year.
As for space monitoring, there is Kazakhstan Garysh Sapary enterprise. The former Ecology Ministry began the launch of the data system. We will continue the realization of the project as the Ministry of Water Resources. 30% of water in basins is monitored from space, and the rest 70% are monitored through gauging stations. We plan to install a water-gaging special device in the future. We will receive precise information when we accumulate all the data. However, it’s about timing.
They say that all four countries do not save the water resources of the Syrdarya River. Will Kazakhstan take any measures to oblige households to conserve water?
There are overhead and drip irrigation technologies. Another direction is land smoothening. A special laser land leveling equipment helps conserve land humidity by 20% as irrigation water spreads evenly. Over 1 million out of 4 million hectares of irrigated areas of Uzbekistan are irrigated with the help of water-saving technologies. Thereat, 50% of the land surface is leveled by the laser.
Overhead and drip irrigation technologies are used in 20% of Kazakhstan’s irrigated areas that is 280,000 hectares. We will once again put forward compensation of the share of the farm households’ expenses for further solution of the problem. We work on the increase of subsidies jointly with the Agriculture Ministry.
When speaking about water diplomacy, scholars say, a delegation of 20-30 experts used to attend the water talks from the side of Russia or China, while Kazakhstan is represented by a few people only. We cannot reach their level due to the shortage of professionals. How are you going to tackle this problem?
Indeed, there is such a problem. One of the biggest departments in our ministry is the international cooperation department, which consists of three units. There is also the department for water policy, led by the professional who has been working in this sector for his entire life. He participated in nine of 12 joint sessions with China. He knows the problem from inside. There is also the department of science and innovations. The director of this department has a 20-year experience in this sphere. We have sent 20 people to the meeting of the working group with Russia. In general, the status of the professionals working in water sector will be raised.
What are the Ministry’s duties in setting water utility rates?
The tariffs are approved by the Ministry of National Economy, but with our consent. The decision is taken after we put forward our recommendations and propositions.
At the meeting of the board of the former Ministry of Ecology, Vice Minister Serik Kozhaniyazov stated that water deficit may reach 50% by 2040. You say that we consume only 25% of the annual reserve. Can you explain discrepancy in these figures?
The discrepancy is not in figures, but in notions. The goal is not to make Kazakhstan use 100% of water within a year. If we want to preserve balance of nature, we should not use too much water. Otherwise, climate change processes and ecological disasters will accelerate. This is how I can explain the notion of deficit.
Of this 25%, how much water is used in agriculture, production and personal consumption.
65% goes towards agriculture, 15% - industry, and about 2% - personal consumption. The remaining volume is used in utilities sector and landscaping.
What kind of work do you plan to carry out in construction of water reservoirs?
In his state-of-the-nation Address, the President set an instruction to build 20 water reservoirs and repair 15 hydrological structures. All this is needed to collect necessary volumes of water formed in our country. When the construction of these 20 water reservoirs is finished, we will be able to collect additional 4 cubic kilometers of water.
How will this help tackle water scarcity in the regions?
Yes, 20 facilities will be built in each region. Kyzylorda region uses, on average, four cubic kilometers of water for agricultural purposes. The same situation is in Turkistan region. Zhambyl region needs one cubic kilometer of water for irrigation. These 20 facilities will help satisfy Zhambyl region’s need in water more than four times.
As for corruption, we do not announce tender. The tender is announced by the Ministry of Finance. We just prepare documents. Upon completion of the tender, the agreements are concluded by the Ministry as the vendor. We have enough authorized structures, who can check up the quality of the order fulfillment.
When will these facilities be put into operation? What sources of financing will be attracted?
The construction of one facility has already been completed. Turkistan region will be the next to receive financing. Design estimate documentation on eight facilities will be prepared in the first half of the next year, after which the construction works will be launched.
What can you say about the volume of underground waters in Kazakhstan? When will we be able to begin using this reserve? Do you have strategy for that?
Currently we are forming the National Hydrogeology Service. Some functions of the local akimats, the ministries of agriculture, industry and construction will be delegated to this service. According to the data available, Kazakhstan has 40 cubic kilometers of underground waters. As soon as the National Hydrogeology Service is formed, it will answer the question on the start of underground water use. Presently we use only 3-5% of underground waters.
Let’s talk again about transboundary rivers. Many of them are formed in glaciers. Once, former Minister of Environment Mels Yeleussivov, proposed to paint the glaciers into white color. Many European countries suggest various adventuristic projects preserving the glaciers. What is your opinion about this issue?
Our duty is to deliver the existing water. What you say is a part of duties of the Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources with a special department in its structure. Kazhydromet is also a part of this ministry. We do not work on glacier-related issues.
Do we need to revise the work of Kazvodkhoz? Ex-Minister Zulfiya Suleimenova touched upon the issue of the company’s debts and financial violations. Can you unveil these violations?
The Supreme Audit Chamber detected a number of financial violations following the audit of RSE Kazvodkhoz’s activity. Some of them were eliminated during the audit. Those found guilty were brought to disciplinary punishment. Complaints are resolved, and facilities are being restored. The company’s activity is under constant control now.
Will water resources and irrigation professionals get a pay raise?
Beginning from January 2024, the salaries of the people employed in water sector will be increased on average by 25%. Alongside, water resources distribution and management units will start functioning in each region.
Thank you for the interview!
By Yessimzhan Naqtybai
